Hello there, Dale Gough from Australia again!

Firstly thank you for the great Rapholt information. I now have 350 Ruprecht's in my family tree, and 14 Generations.

Secondly, I am trying to contact a Gottleib Ruprecht from Krauchenweis. I have rung the phone number and the phone appears to be busy all the time. Gottleib was visited by my 3rd cousin, a lady called Sue from Taree NSW, in the early 1990's I think and she tells of Gottleib being sure that he is related to the Taree Ruprecht's. All I have is part of a brochure of Gottleib's from his workplace, he appears to be a white collar worker, architect or designer or such just by looking at the photo on the brochure. I am looking for an email address to ask him what he knows about the Ruprecht family. Whilst I have information that with my starting family group (Albrecht Ruprecht and his wives,) he had two sons, one was Johann Friedrich (my side of the family) and the other son was Johann Christian (he had a couple of wives too). So I am rather foolishly assuming that Gottleib may be from that side, even though I know there are THOUSANDS of Ruprechts in your part of Germany, let alone probaly millions in Germany itself!

If you can transcribe this into better than my computer programme German and throw it over to the other Forum members I would be very appreciative.

Thank you for your past and hopefully present help in my genealogical matters,

Mrs Dale Gough

Hello there again, In reply to your last email first the number I tried to ring was from Australia :

0011 49 7576 929709

for the Gottfried (sorry in my last email I got his name wrong) Ruprecht in Habsthahl Str 72505 Krauchenweis.

The brochure I could send (I am looking for it after this email) in another note.

I am so glad english is ok with you, as I tend to run on and on and maybe my computer translation programme gets things a bit mixed up.

I have another problematic set of relatives upon which I would like your advice. any other sites to look at, people to email etc.

Firstly: Sarah Barbara Vogel, born 1839 in Auenstein, I do not have her parents names, places or dates and would like them. Sarah came to Australia in 1857, and married John Martin Ruprecht in Taree NSW Australia in 1858.

Secondly: (Any of these names except the Ruprecht) Rosina Mannheim born supposedly in Germany in 1814, married John (Johann) Rapbold/Rapbolt/Rapholt/Raphold etc (the name seems to have been changed every season), born supposedly in 1810 in Germany, and they had a child Fredericka Rosina Rapbold etc. born 1835 ish in Germany. Now this Fredericka Rosina Rapbold etc married Martin Christopher Ruprecht in 1860 in Taree NSW.
I have this theory that maybe Rosina was FROM Mannheim, and John Rapbold and Rosina go to the church and announce their intentions and she says she is from Mannheim, so she is put down as Rosina Mannheim, as any documentation I have has NO parents at all for either of them. You can see this particular problem is driving me CRAZY!

I have gone throught Ancestry.de (I am a member) and found nothing, also tried the Latter Day Saints site, again nothing. Of course I am not fully aware of what is on the Ancestry.de page as my German is close to non existant.

Thanks for everything,

"Dale" Gough

Hi again, I wanted to thank you for the Rabold info sent, the dates do not dovetail with my (not verified yet) information, but will keep it in mind. Thanks, Dale

Hello there again Angeleye,

I have rung the phone number I sent you, and a lady (his wife) answered. I had the right number but Gottfried was sick in hospital apparently very ill in the head she said (brain tumour?)

Basically their son works in the same place, a place called Ruprecht Lackierung Lohle & Ruprecht OHG as she asked me if I sent an email to the company (I did last night!!!!!!) requesting information from Gottfried etc., as the son talked of the email to her.

I have asked her to ask her son to reply re the family tree and will get the email translated at my end as she thought the son could not do an English email.

The brochure I had was printed in 1981 and basically it says

Gottfried Ruprecht, Werkstatten fur
Lackierung Baumaleral .........
7482 Krauchenweis 1 telephon 07576/208

So that is what has gone on so far, depending on what I get from the son, I will probably require your assistance again.

"Dale" Gough

Hello Angel Eye
Thank you for your reply.
I may have told you, but I did ring the phone number from here, and the wife told me that her husband was "krank" in the "koph" (head) in hospital. (excuse my very poor German)
And she said her son worked at the place that I emailed (Ruprecht Lackierung Lohle & Ruprecht), and she thinks he has not enough english to reply, so I said reply in German, and I will get it translated.
She told me their son's name but I couldn't quite "catch it" and she was obviously worried about her husband, her english, my even worse German, and some stranger trying to contact him too I suppose, so I did not ask for the son's name again!
I have not received an email from the son as yet.
They may be talking to Gottfried, but if it is a brain tumour (my husband died from one 8 years ago) my experience tells me that Gottfried may not be making as much sense as he would like to, depending on the duration of the illness. I hope that Gottfried in the past has a written version of the family tree and documentation. A brain tumour is a very nasty thing to happen to a man.
If I do not get an email or communication from them, maybe you can repeat my request in German? I could do the email again in computer translated German but the context may be not as fluent as a human German translation.
Now to Sarah Barbara Vogel: all I have is she was born 22 April 1839 in Auenstein (there are several places of that name I realise), and that she came to Australia in June 1857 with 150 gilders in money, I got the information about the money from the internet, I cannot remember where! - but am trying to back-track my steps to find out), but have from the Wurttemberg Emigration Index (Ancestry.de) Sarah from district Marbach, same information and number 838272.
I also have two more Vogel's (relatives perhaps?) from the same Wurttemberg Emigration Index; Fredericke born 16 Jan 1830 in Auenstein, emigration date 1870 to Austria, number 838278; and David Michael born unknown in Auenstein, emigration date Feb 1858 to Austria, number 838273. Could the destination place be a "typo"? for Australia?
Now to Rosina Mannheim 1810-1816 ?: All I have is from Ancestry.de (searching through the family trees there) a Ruprecht Family Tree and a Williams Family Tree, on which the daughter Fredericka Rosine Rapbold, with her parents as John Rapbold and Rosina Mannheim and Fredericka is born "about 1836", thus making Rosina and John by calculation being born approx 1810-1816. I have found up to 4 different spellings of Rapbold, and of course the spelling depends on the transcriber of the handwritten text, or even indeed the way that the surname was spelt by the person themselves.
I have found 3 different spellings of "Ruprecht" in the life of one of my relatives, born Rupricht, married Rupracht, died Ruprecht, and in one case the handwritten documentation of one male Ruprecht, he put his name on WW1 Australian Army enlistment papers as Rupright.
Thank you for all your assistance so far, Dale Gough

Hi Angel Eye,

I have additional information on her from http://www.auswanderer-bw.de.

It is : Emigrant ID - 2521, First Name - Sara (no "h") Barbara, Last Name - Vogel, Last Place of Residence - Ilsfeld, District - Auenstein, Marital Status - led ??, etc, Date of Emigration Jun 30, Year of Emigration - 1857, Country of Destination - Australia, Capital 150 fl, County - Marbach, Archive - Hauptstaatsarchiv Stuttgart.

I did get the money wrong, but still she took money with her, whereas others in my tree have had to be assisted by their community to go to Australia.

Seeing that she had money with her, would that mean she was an UNASSISTED passenger, or an ASSISTED passenger? In steerage or perhaps sharing a cabin?

I have been going thru the Latter Day Saints Site (Pilot) again and found an

Anna Barbara Vogel christened 21 Apr 1839 in Evangelisch, Frickenhausen, Schwarzwaldkreis, Wurttemberg, Residence as Frickhausen, Birth Date as 19 Apr 1839, with father as Johannes Vogel born 11/11/1802, and mother as Maria Agnes Stephan born 3/8/1804, and married 1828.

WHAT A COINCIDENCE. Seeing that I have found NO Sarah Barbara Vogel's born April 22 1839, could she have changed her name to emigrate? She emigrated at age 18, several questions and scenarios spring to mind.

Was she kicked out of the family home? Did she know John Martin Ruprecht (husband she married in Australia) in Germany ? How did she have so much money when in those times money was not easy to come by and save? Would the 150 fl be a wedding dowry?

Well there is something for me think about instead of the seeminlg relentless task to find Rosina Mannheim! John Rapbold! and Sarah Barbara Vogel! . I have tried numerous different spellings of their names and still not come up with much.

Talk to you later,

"Dale" Gough

Hi again!



You should search for the ship, then look for an "John Martin Ruprecht" - maybe they left together germany. She wasn ´t married, led. = ledig = not married. In Ilsfeld she lived?



I think that all passengers had to declare ....



birth date: 19 apr., christend 1 apr. thats possible.



Searching for ancestors is always a crazy idea.

ANNA MARIA VOGEL
Christening: 21 APR 1839 Evangelisch, Frickenhausen, Schwarzwaldkreis, Wuerttemberg

no - she would never change the name in this way

ok - now we have some more informations. Today i have to do other things, but tomorrow...

angeleye

Hi Dale!

It´s me again.

We know that Sara Barbara Vogels birth date is 22.ap.1836 and the birth place is Auenstein/Ilsfeld. She had a child as she left germany.
Maybe she was married twice? Maybe it was a "bastard" - and the parents did not accept that.

http://www.auswanderer-bw.de/auswandere ... c9bd50192a

This is the adress of the church archive (Landeskirchliches Archiv Stuttgart)

Churchbooks Auenstein/Ilsfeld

http://www.archiv.elk-wue.de/cms/starts ... -research/

I although found this record in the emigration indey of Baden-Württemberg

Johann (Josef?) Mannheim from Kirchheim unter Teck left germany in 1854, Destination Moreton, New South Wales

I think that is all i can do for you.

Best wishes and good luck

angeleye

Thank you Angel Eye for the information.

How did you find out about the child she had before leaving Germany?

Did she bring the child with her? Or was the child left in the care of someone else in the homeland (mother, girlfriend, grandparents)? Maybe the child died on the voyage if "it" was sickly, or if Sara didn't produce enough milk. What Teddybär was "it"? I hate calling "it" an "it" when "it" would have it's very own identity.

I like to know these things so I may be able to do the research myself in the future.

I brought up the Church archives site and wasn't sure what to do there as it is in German.

If I put the name VOGEL in the search box what should happen? When I did that, it said there were no (keine) Vogel's.

Can you tell me where to put her name to search, and which boxes to tick or click etc?

My reading of the German language is so poor, could you see the church archive of Sarah Vogel when you were in there?

I will now go back to my ships arriving in Sydney list for 1857 and see if I can narrow down a few more ships.

Would I be right in assuming that once the single females arrived (with prospect of marriage anyway - on a promise or predetermination made in Germany) in Sydney, they would be married within the month? I am assuming this in regard to when the ships docked there and when I have the records of marriage for the ladies.

Anyway, have a great Christmas, I am not too Christmassy normally, and I look forward to dealing with you next year, I am sure I will have questions for you then.

Dale Gough